trader889
Jan 26, 11:18 PM
You can't tell much about where a company is going by looking at P/E, as by definition, this is a backwards-looking statistic. All of the companies you mention are growing far more slowly than Apple, which is why their trailing P/E ratios are lower. This is sort of what you said, but it's worth clarifying that you can't necessarily compare P/E ratios between companies with vastly different growth rates.
True, that's why I like to look at the PEG Ratio (P/E to Growth). If we take the current price of 130 minus cash net of payables and receivables (approx $17 a share), you get 113 for the "enterprise" value of Apple. I'll give it a conservative $5/share earnings this year, for a P/E of 23. According to Yahoo, we have an estimate of 30% growth this year, so we are getting a PEG of less than 1 for this year. Less than 1 is cheap, HOWEVER, it doesn't mean it can't/won't get cheaper.
I'm long Apple, so I have a bias, but here are some things to think about:
1) Market is reacting to bad numbers for the ipod, supposedly bad numbers for the iphone, recession concerns etc.. Do you think Apple is not going to come out with anything new this year that can add to the bottom line?
2) Apple is opening up more new stores worldwide. I believe their average sales at the stores is about $4000/sq foot. Their first China store is opening up in Beijing this year (think Olympics). Also, despite some of the headlines about no China iphone deal, CEO of China Mobile (370 million subscribers) stated this past weekend in Davos, Switzerland "We've not started any formal negotiations with Apple. The door is open to all for discussions about fashionable phones". This pretty reiterates what Steve Jobs said. Also, let's not forget all the other countries that have no iphone deals.
3) $18 billion in cash. Let's say that this earns 2%. Comes out to about 30,000,000 a month or .03 per share in earnings just on interest. On the conference call, I think one of the analysts said that Apple is averaging about $1 billion a quarter in cash, although last quarter was killer when they added $3 billion.
4) 45% of Apple's revenues come from overseas. This will only get larger as they open more stores overseas. Unless we get a worldwide recession, overseas sales should help cushion any US slowdown. Also, all the US analysts keep coming up with their updates based upon their "channel" checks, does this include overseas channel checks? I doubt it. So be wary of what they say.
5) Personally, I think the Macbook Air was developed with Japan in mind. In previous conference calls, CFO said Japan was one of the weaker markets. As some of you may know, Japan loves small, ultraportable computers.
Feel to comment/criticize, but as one poster said, if you think Apple is finished as a company, sell. If you think the future still looks good, don't look at the price of Apple for 3 months or as Warren Buffet says, 10 years..lol.
True, that's why I like to look at the PEG Ratio (P/E to Growth). If we take the current price of 130 minus cash net of payables and receivables (approx $17 a share), you get 113 for the "enterprise" value of Apple. I'll give it a conservative $5/share earnings this year, for a P/E of 23. According to Yahoo, we have an estimate of 30% growth this year, so we are getting a PEG of less than 1 for this year. Less than 1 is cheap, HOWEVER, it doesn't mean it can't/won't get cheaper.
I'm long Apple, so I have a bias, but here are some things to think about:
1) Market is reacting to bad numbers for the ipod, supposedly bad numbers for the iphone, recession concerns etc.. Do you think Apple is not going to come out with anything new this year that can add to the bottom line?
2) Apple is opening up more new stores worldwide. I believe their average sales at the stores is about $4000/sq foot. Their first China store is opening up in Beijing this year (think Olympics). Also, despite some of the headlines about no China iphone deal, CEO of China Mobile (370 million subscribers) stated this past weekend in Davos, Switzerland "We've not started any formal negotiations with Apple. The door is open to all for discussions about fashionable phones". This pretty reiterates what Steve Jobs said. Also, let's not forget all the other countries that have no iphone deals.
3) $18 billion in cash. Let's say that this earns 2%. Comes out to about 30,000,000 a month or .03 per share in earnings just on interest. On the conference call, I think one of the analysts said that Apple is averaging about $1 billion a quarter in cash, although last quarter was killer when they added $3 billion.
4) 45% of Apple's revenues come from overseas. This will only get larger as they open more stores overseas. Unless we get a worldwide recession, overseas sales should help cushion any US slowdown. Also, all the US analysts keep coming up with their updates based upon their "channel" checks, does this include overseas channel checks? I doubt it. So be wary of what they say.
5) Personally, I think the Macbook Air was developed with Japan in mind. In previous conference calls, CFO said Japan was one of the weaker markets. As some of you may know, Japan loves small, ultraportable computers.
Feel to comment/criticize, but as one poster said, if you think Apple is finished as a company, sell. If you think the future still looks good, don't look at the price of Apple for 3 months or as Warren Buffet says, 10 years..lol.
chrmjenkins
Apr 28, 04:26 PM
First, the volume switch issue, then this. I feel sorry for case manufacturers. What a nightmare.
Oh shucks, people have to buy all new cases to fit this slightly varied iphone.
Bill, I guess open another vault for all the extra money. We just ain't got no more places to put it.
Oh shucks, people have to buy all new cases to fit this slightly varied iphone.
Bill, I guess open another vault for all the extra money. We just ain't got no more places to put it.
Westside guy
Jul 10, 12:17 PM
Ha ha... when I glanced at the RSS feed I thought it said "Page 3 Features?". I thought: "Why the heck would MacRumors add a 'Page 3'? Much of the 'Page 1' stuff never comes to pass, and they've got 'Page 2' for the even less substantiated stuff..."
:p
:p
63dot
Mar 1, 08:40 AM
Over the years, Sheen has shown himself to be pretty volatile. But that being said, Chuck Lorre is also a piece of work. What's funny, but not surprising, is how in many ways the two guys are similar.
Sure, Charlie has had great success with this show and was in some high profile movies, and sure Chuck Lorre has been at the helm of some high profile projects, but somewhere along the way, nobody told either of these men they were not God.
Anyway, it will be interesting, yet predictable, to see this war of words back and forth. I don't think the world would miss Sheen or Lorre leaving Hollywood.
Sure, Charlie has had great success with this show and was in some high profile movies, and sure Chuck Lorre has been at the helm of some high profile projects, but somewhere along the way, nobody told either of these men they were not God.
Anyway, it will be interesting, yet predictable, to see this war of words back and forth. I don't think the world would miss Sheen or Lorre leaving Hollywood.
GregAndonian
Apr 15, 03:38 AM
Ok, here's my theory. I think Apple's "No Blu-ray" stance may play a role here... Perhaps.
The thing I really don't like about Blu-ray being washed away by streaming and downloads is that right now there's no good way for people to share their own videos with people in a way that they'll be able to watch them on the TV in high quality, similar to how they'd watch a Netflix film. YouTube is great if you watch it on a computer, but on a TV device it's not full quality and it's hard to find things.
This is one of the key things I'm waiting for before I embrace the idea of streaming and downloads becoming the norm. Unlike Blu-ray, Netflix streaming doesn't have a recordable format. I was thinking before Apple could be a great candidate to fill this void.
With the new datacenter and the impending FCP X release, the pieces are coming together. Next they release a new version of the apple TV which, among other things, allows users to watch videos that they and others have uploaded- on the TV, in high quality.
THAT would be really cool. I still love Blu-ray. But it would be really sweet being able to upload a short film or video that I made and know that people will be able to watch it on their ix.Mac.MarketingName... :D
The thing I really don't like about Blu-ray being washed away by streaming and downloads is that right now there's no good way for people to share their own videos with people in a way that they'll be able to watch them on the TV in high quality, similar to how they'd watch a Netflix film. YouTube is great if you watch it on a computer, but on a TV device it's not full quality and it's hard to find things.
This is one of the key things I'm waiting for before I embrace the idea of streaming and downloads becoming the norm. Unlike Blu-ray, Netflix streaming doesn't have a recordable format. I was thinking before Apple could be a great candidate to fill this void.
With the new datacenter and the impending FCP X release, the pieces are coming together. Next they release a new version of the apple TV which, among other things, allows users to watch videos that they and others have uploaded- on the TV, in high quality.
THAT would be really cool. I still love Blu-ray. But it would be really sweet being able to upload a short film or video that I made and know that people will be able to watch it on their ix.Mac.MarketingName... :D
EricNau
Aug 15, 11:58 PM
It's actually a very Apple thing to do. Apple has always been about making a totally integrated, complete end-to-end computing environment and Apple has also always been dedicated to transforming things that had been difficult for non-techies to do into some so simple and effective that even advanced technical users decide it's the best method. This is probably not the first time an option to buy hardware has been built into software, but just like Time Machine is revolutionary because it's the first SIMPLE file-by-file backup system and not because it's the first backup system ever, so too this "Buy Battery" button is revolutionary because of how simple and integrated it is.
I'm hardly an Apple apologist, I complain quite loudly when they do things that are lame. But I think this is a very Apple thing to do and a feature that isn't just a built in advertisement. If I had an OS X button to buy a new battery when I wanted one, rather than tracking down the battery model number I needed and having to worry about who to buy from and bothering with technical details, I'd definitely appreciate being able to just click that button.
Making the entire computer experience simple, easy and fun is what Apple has always been about, and this is a natural continuation of those ideals. In fact, I hope they expand this functionality to include upgrading ram and hard disks (as long as they don't go overboard with the prices like in the b.t.o. options at the apple store).
Really this is a wonderful new breakthrough in Apple's quest for computing easiness.
I almost agree with you. I think it is helpful for Apple to provide an easy link for users who have a bad battery and need to buy another "replacement" battery; however, when Apple is trying to sell you a "spare" battery, something you really don't need, they seem like the salesmen knocking on your door trying to sell you a $1400 vacuum.
I'm hardly an Apple apologist, I complain quite loudly when they do things that are lame. But I think this is a very Apple thing to do and a feature that isn't just a built in advertisement. If I had an OS X button to buy a new battery when I wanted one, rather than tracking down the battery model number I needed and having to worry about who to buy from and bothering with technical details, I'd definitely appreciate being able to just click that button.
Making the entire computer experience simple, easy and fun is what Apple has always been about, and this is a natural continuation of those ideals. In fact, I hope they expand this functionality to include upgrading ram and hard disks (as long as they don't go overboard with the prices like in the b.t.o. options at the apple store).
Really this is a wonderful new breakthrough in Apple's quest for computing easiness.
I almost agree with you. I think it is helpful for Apple to provide an easy link for users who have a bad battery and need to buy another "replacement" battery; however, when Apple is trying to sell you a "spare" battery, something you really don't need, they seem like the salesmen knocking on your door trying to sell you a $1400 vacuum.
ten-oak-druid
Apr 25, 12:40 PM
matte screen option or fail.
Given that the option is available for the macbook pro, I'd guess the imacs will get them.
Given that the option is available for the macbook pro, I'd guess the imacs will get them.
gr8tfly
Jan 25, 06:35 PM
MacWorld, quarterly report and market in general. Expectations of MacWorld beyond reality and can't top iPhone. Quarterly report also not up to predictions, most of which were not from Apple. The rest was tracking the market, in general (compare today's chart for AAPL with the Dow).
Good time to buy, from what I can see. Actually bought more, myself.
Good time to buy, from what I can see. Actually bought more, myself.
digitalbiker
Jul 11, 12:58 AM
Apple never intended for iWork to compete with MS Office. Apple merely wanted to fill a niche for those AppleWorks users who didn't need a full blown behemoth Office Suite like MS Office.
It is only the die-hard Apple users that detest MS Office who are suggesting that iWork is a replacement for MS Office.
I have been using Pages and Keynote since Day One. Pages One was almost worthless in my book. Apple should have given away Pages v2 to those who suffered through version 1. Keynote was interesting and useful from version one but still lags significantly behind PowerPoint.
Both Pages 2 and Keynote now make a nice little package at $79.00 for those users who don't need to work in an MS Office environment and don't need all of the revision, collaboration, and integration tools of MS Office.
But come on, let's get real. iWork doesn't really come close to what is offered by a professional business suite like MS Office. It's like saying, Photshop Elements is a replacement for Creative Suite 2.:eek:
It is only the die-hard Apple users that detest MS Office who are suggesting that iWork is a replacement for MS Office.
I have been using Pages and Keynote since Day One. Pages One was almost worthless in my book. Apple should have given away Pages v2 to those who suffered through version 1. Keynote was interesting and useful from version one but still lags significantly behind PowerPoint.
Both Pages 2 and Keynote now make a nice little package at $79.00 for those users who don't need to work in an MS Office environment and don't need all of the revision, collaboration, and integration tools of MS Office.
But come on, let's get real. iWork doesn't really come close to what is offered by a professional business suite like MS Office. It's like saying, Photshop Elements is a replacement for Creative Suite 2.:eek:
Parkin Pig
Apr 3, 04:37 AM
Crimple Viaduct, Harrogate
Adidas Addict
Apr 28, 04:24 PM
Phone cases are for wimps anyway :D
I still think it's the same size after staring at the photos. Light/white objects always look bigger than they are compared to black. Just look at a while aluminium mountain bike frame compared to a black one, they always look fatter.
I still think it's the same size after staring at the photos. Light/white objects always look bigger than they are compared to black. Just look at a while aluminium mountain bike frame compared to a black one, they always look fatter.
ebow
Aug 16, 07:22 AM
But at least the sidebar is improved in a useful way. I hate how the text on the current sidebar hangs to the side of the images, taking up valuable width.
So instead, the new sidebar pushes into the image, reducing it in size, and requiring you to expand the width ( :eek: ) of the window if you want to keep the image the same size. I don't really see the overall difference. I suppose it comes down to whether you prefer the images to get slightly smaller, or the tray to suddenly cover over other things.
So instead, the new sidebar pushes into the image, reducing it in size, and requiring you to expand the width ( :eek: ) of the window if you want to keep the image the same size. I don't really see the overall difference. I suppose it comes down to whether you prefer the images to get slightly smaller, or the tray to suddenly cover over other things.
alexf
Oct 18, 05:57 PM
I hear a bit of what he is saying though. I mean there wasn't much innovation, just.... it was more like building the perfect car, say something like a Subaru WRX ( my car that I love very much) but replaced with a nicer engine from Porsche.... some better tires off a Lancer.... a nice tranny off of Porsche again.... neverthless... this is what they did with the Mac. Took some great stuff out there like Glossy Screen, Webcams, and Intel chips and put em in our loving Mac. However, the only piece of innocation was the Maglev charger. There was no new standards... no new gear. Yet, I do believe you are asking for too much if they are expected to innovate every product revision. Its becoming a very big company.... its no longer a couple thousand products where you can mess-up on some new innovation...
But I'm not worried... there hasn't been much innovation elsewhere either so its not like Apple is behind... they are in front. Just not WAY in front. We'll see what happens with Leopard/802.11N/Santa Rosa/HD DVDs/Hybrid HDs..... innovation is in the pipeline. Don't worry.
2007 is going to be a very good year.
And 2008 even better. Presidential Election! ;)
Yes, thank you. At least someone else out there is emotionally distanced enough from the iPod and the Apple entertainment sector to be a bit objective.
Innovation: just what happened to Apple's innovative spirit when it comes to computers? The latest Mac Pro was fitted into the existing (and way oversized) G5 case. The MacBook was disappointing in that - proportionally - Apple did not shrink it at all or make it lighter than its predecessor (a design which had been in existence for about four years). There are more things, but I really don't want to sound like a troll here...
Apple needs to come out with new computer models that are unlike anything else out there. What about a tiny, thin ultraportable? What about a smaller tower, so those of us that want a pro computer don't have to invest in an oversized monster (which is larger than any PCs in the market that I am aware of). Aren't computers supposed to get SMALLER as the technology advances? Why is Apple obsessed with making the iPod smaller and smaller, but does not care as much about its laptops and desktops?
The answer: profit, or course. The iPod is Apple's cash cow. And this, my friends, is what I mean when I say that Apple needs to be partitioning off a little of its innovative energy that it is putting into its entertainment sector and bring it back to the computer line.
Understood now?
OK, now fire away :)
But I'm not worried... there hasn't been much innovation elsewhere either so its not like Apple is behind... they are in front. Just not WAY in front. We'll see what happens with Leopard/802.11N/Santa Rosa/HD DVDs/Hybrid HDs..... innovation is in the pipeline. Don't worry.
2007 is going to be a very good year.
And 2008 even better. Presidential Election! ;)
Yes, thank you. At least someone else out there is emotionally distanced enough from the iPod and the Apple entertainment sector to be a bit objective.
Innovation: just what happened to Apple's innovative spirit when it comes to computers? The latest Mac Pro was fitted into the existing (and way oversized) G5 case. The MacBook was disappointing in that - proportionally - Apple did not shrink it at all or make it lighter than its predecessor (a design which had been in existence for about four years). There are more things, but I really don't want to sound like a troll here...
Apple needs to come out with new computer models that are unlike anything else out there. What about a tiny, thin ultraportable? What about a smaller tower, so those of us that want a pro computer don't have to invest in an oversized monster (which is larger than any PCs in the market that I am aware of). Aren't computers supposed to get SMALLER as the technology advances? Why is Apple obsessed with making the iPod smaller and smaller, but does not care as much about its laptops and desktops?
The answer: profit, or course. The iPod is Apple's cash cow. And this, my friends, is what I mean when I say that Apple needs to be partitioning off a little of its innovative energy that it is putting into its entertainment sector and bring it back to the computer line.
Understood now?
OK, now fire away :)
kwarren
Sep 14, 09:00 PM
Yeah, um, I really, really like Threadless. And Halo. Won't have to do laundry for a month straight now! :)
Had to stock up on t-shirts when they had their $9 sale for 32 hours this past week!
Had to stock up on t-shirts when they had their $9 sale for 32 hours this past week!
renewed
Sep 13, 04:24 PM
Me too :)
Great, aren't they?
Sometimes. The little squirt just got home from the vet. I took him outside and he ran around a lot. So brought him back in and he went right over to the TV and pooped and peed. Ugh. 9/10 he is using the pads or outside but that 1/10 is making my house smell. Thank goodness for Resolve for Pets.
Great, aren't they?
Sometimes. The little squirt just got home from the vet. I took him outside and he ran around a lot. So brought him back in and he went right over to the TV and pooped and peed. Ugh. 9/10 he is using the pads or outside but that 1/10 is making my house smell. Thank goodness for Resolve for Pets.
deputy_doofy
Oct 24, 08:21 AM
MacBook Pro 15-inch Glossy Widescreen Display
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB
2.33GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
Apple USB Modem
Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
160GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
Accessory Kit
SuperDrive 6x (DVD+R DL/DVD�RW/CD-RW)
Soon, the little lady can use the PB12" full time.
:D
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB
2.33GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
Apple USB Modem
Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
160GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
Accessory Kit
SuperDrive 6x (DVD+R DL/DVD�RW/CD-RW)
Soon, the little lady can use the PB12" full time.
:D
cleanup
Jan 26, 12:18 PM
Carrying on with the actual purpose of the thread...
I pretty much purchase this 3 times a week. Lunch at EstWest.
Apologies for the ginormous iPhone photo. I really don't understand why the iPhone has no way to turn down the resolution of camera photos. 5MP is really unnecessary for phone photos.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/60400/estwest.jpg
Yesterday though, the girlfriend and I indulged in Gourmet Burger Co. Forgot to snap a photo though, so instead, here's one of Craft Fat Burger (not quite as good, but half the price). Hungry yet?!
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/60400/craftfatburger.jpg
I pretty much purchase this 3 times a week. Lunch at EstWest.
Apologies for the ginormous iPhone photo. I really don't understand why the iPhone has no way to turn down the resolution of camera photos. 5MP is really unnecessary for phone photos.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/60400/estwest.jpg
Yesterday though, the girlfriend and I indulged in Gourmet Burger Co. Forgot to snap a photo though, so instead, here's one of Craft Fat Burger (not quite as good, but half the price). Hungry yet?!
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/60400/craftfatburger.jpg
arnebanane
Apr 14, 05:45 AM
there are always some really nice photos in this thread. I am following for a long time but posting, well I always postpone it.
here is a b/w series from an abandoned shipyard/harbour before it underwent some reconstruction, I will try to post others in the next couple of days.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_vG95AgWLPiQ/TZwajy9TFgI/AAAAAAAAF2k/K5-mDGLll44/s800/12.jpg
Shot on kodak film, 400 iso b/w, analog, Pentax ME
here is a b/w series from an abandoned shipyard/harbour before it underwent some reconstruction, I will try to post others in the next couple of days.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_vG95AgWLPiQ/TZwajy9TFgI/AAAAAAAAF2k/K5-mDGLll44/s800/12.jpg
Shot on kodak film, 400 iso b/w, analog, Pentax ME
patel1029
Apr 23, 07:57 PM
I like how the proximity sensor was casually cut off from the picture. I wonder if that iPhone has the "new" proximity sensor or the old one.
I bet if T-Mobile got the iPhone, they wouldn't need to sell the company since many people would go back to T-Mobile.
I agree... why would T-Mobile sell themselves to AT&T if they know they are going to get the iPhone!!!??? I sure as hell would switch to T-mobile if they came out with a T-Mobile version!
I bet if T-Mobile got the iPhone, they wouldn't need to sell the company since many people would go back to T-Mobile.
I agree... why would T-Mobile sell themselves to AT&T if they know they are going to get the iPhone!!!??? I sure as hell would switch to T-mobile if they came out with a T-Mobile version!
ipodtoucher
Sep 16, 08:57 AM
http://www.washingtonian.com/page_dbimages/9463/georgetowncupcake.sisters.png
1 Chocolate birthday, 2 chocolate pb swirl, 2 pumpkin spice, 1 red velvet, and 1 vanilla/chocolate. Picking them up tomorrow
Daaaang and you didn't get the free one? PS todays is Apple Cinnamon ;)
I love their cupcakes and since my school is across the key bridge I got there often hahaha
Oh and I got new pants cause I pissed myself in excitement yesterday!! HAHAHAHAHAHA Just kidding, but I did get to assist an amazing DC photographer Morgan Howarth (http://www.morganhowarth.com) yesterday :D :D :D
http://pics.livejournal.com/wetjeanstn/pic/0000hk9c/s320x240
1 Chocolate birthday, 2 chocolate pb swirl, 2 pumpkin spice, 1 red velvet, and 1 vanilla/chocolate. Picking them up tomorrow
Daaaang and you didn't get the free one? PS todays is Apple Cinnamon ;)
I love their cupcakes and since my school is across the key bridge I got there often hahaha
Oh and I got new pants cause I pissed myself in excitement yesterday!! HAHAHAHAHAHA Just kidding, but I did get to assist an amazing DC photographer Morgan Howarth (http://www.morganhowarth.com) yesterday :D :D :D
http://pics.livejournal.com/wetjeanstn/pic/0000hk9c/s320x240
neutrino23
Dec 1, 03:32 PM
Which makes it even MORE odd that it's enabled by default in MacTels, which don't run Classic. :confused:
Hmm. I'm running a 17" MacBook Pro with 10.4.8 and when I checked under both Ethernet and Airport Appletalk was not enabled. On this machine I have never set it one way or the other.
Hmm. I'm running a 17" MacBook Pro with 10.4.8 and when I checked under both Ethernet and Airport Appletalk was not enabled. On this machine I have never set it one way or the other.
Derbus
Jan 26, 07:20 PM
These things happen, but this isnt the first time this has happened to Apple either
NathanCH
Apr 4, 01:23 PM
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/616276/DSC_2488_s.jpg
50mm, ISO100, F5.6, 1/1600
50mm, ISO100, F5.6, 1/1600
jessica.
Sep 13, 08:19 PM
Linkin Park A Thousand Suns
http://metalwarez.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Linkin-Park-A-Thousand-Suns-2010.jpg
Only one song kicks ass and it's called "Wretches And kings" It's going to be a hit in da clubs. I said it first! :D
Do you ever leave your basement? How will you know if it is a hit? :p
http://metalwarez.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Linkin-Park-A-Thousand-Suns-2010.jpg
Only one song kicks ass and it's called "Wretches And kings" It's going to be a hit in da clubs. I said it first! :D
Do you ever leave your basement? How will you know if it is a hit? :p
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